The Very Small Garden Railway
Redesigning the Track
Here's how it looks - how I got there follows…
Pigsty Hill Loop with mini-fernery made from two fold-away plastic storage boxes. Note that, however silly the long coach looks on a 16.5" (422mm) radius, it runs perfectly.
Pigsty Hill Station in rather untypical weather
The Pigsty Hill crossover (mini-rockery constructed like the Pigsty Hill loop)
Train leaving Beaufort Yard
From Beaufort Yard into the jungle
I had decided that the current line did not provide enough operating potential so, who better to ask for advice than the 16mm narrow gauge modellers'
e-group? I started off by roughing out my ideas using WinRail, an excellent product that comes with built-in libraries of many manufacturers' track, including that of LGB.This was my first effort (incidentally, the grid lines are at metre intervals):
Version 1 (latest changes in red)
The idea was that the crossover and the extra loop would lengthen the apparent run, making it more suitable for non-RC locos. All the curves on the main line would be R3.
The responses I got from others on the e-group (in italics) were:
JB (in Australia): I would try and leave a siding by what I assume in your plan is a ship, and would also be looking to supply a run around at each terminus without losing the cane fields or bay platform at the main existing terminal. I hope this makes sense without a sketch.
Trouble is, if I create a run-round I can't use the siding for stock and I don't have the space for both. All passenger trains are push-pull, so it's not a major problem.
DB: One possible addition is to make the "Junction into a Y so you can get back to the station without reversing also have two ordinary points instead of the cross over so you have the extra loop for storage and can use two trains if required. What are you doing up at 0200 as that is what the message is timed at?
I already have a point in that position, which I was going to remove. How does this look? The option of out and back via the loop looks interesting, particularly for rainy days.
Version 2
Note: This introduced R1 (600mm) curves on the main line - this turned out to be a bad idea!
GH:
Yes I agree John, this plan is better than the first.DB: Yes that is what I meant it helps if you do not want to reverse. Is it a cross over or a double slip on the original? It would help if you had a double slip or two points if you have space so you can stop a train on one loop and pass it with another without using a siding. Gives a bit more scope. WE all know nobody has enough space and sidings however large it is.
SM: I assume that you've won the lottery, will that be an LGB double slip going in at the station throat?
It might be worth making the double siding, across the loco wash, into slightly longer sidings with release road and the possibly of a 2nd station. So that you can run your push pull unit end 2 end, with the bonus of a
"Gorton Moment" and letting something run continuously. The reversing triangle aids that difficult moment where you have to access both sides of the loco to service it.
The bonus is you don't have to set back into Pigsty Hill (Riverside) but can steam majestically in, which saves the patience when propelling rolling stock. As you have Steam Yak on the way you'll have at least two mainline
engines, so your passengers and goods customers need not worry about the level of service.
If you went completely mad and added a headshunt to the complexities at Pigsty Hill (Riverside) then it might be possible to keep the relieving locomotive on the headshunt, is there room for a short 300-400mm straight
and buffer stop?
All you have to do now is mortgage your mortal soul, sell the Roundhouse Wossname and purchase all that lovely Large Gurt Big track and set too. I still have some flexible track and it's base available which for a
consideration I would be happy to part with. By the way I can't see where your SWMBO* escape room is, or is that in the next phase when Diarmuid and Lawrence call to "make over" the house and garden?
* SWMBO = "She Who Must Be Obeyed"
JB: I hope these plan variations are going to end up in the files for those just starting out to think about:-))
Plan "B" turn Pigsty Hill existing station throat into a cross over run the new part back to the beginning of the
new red bit put a double slip (Ouch my wallet hurts!) this will connect the new red bit to the old branch main which is now the ship siding and the short loop makes it shuntable. (Not knowing the scale of drawing makes things hard and can't afford plane ticket.)
At the cane fields the siding closest to the oval becomes the platform road the far siding is lengthened as much as possible and a set of points at the end creates two new cane sidings. That should fit I hope?? Well it works on paper! However the excuse too expensive is acceptable ;-)
JA: Only two comments: I think you will need more or longer sidings. Even a big chap like you, with long arms, will have difficulty reaching anything in the middle of the bigger baseboard!
AF: Looks good to me, although from the jungle I recall when Richard and I visited a years back you might want some point indicators if you are using remote operation.
BD: I like the look of that!
Thanks to all you Aussies and insomniacs - I've read, marked and inwardly digested all your comments...
The grid lines are at metre intervals but it is, despite its size, a garden layout. Yes, I know it's smaller than some folk's hearth-rugs!
<breaks down and sobs uncontrollably>
<sniff, sniff, right that's better>
Beyond the cane field the line passes into impenetrable jungle (i.e. a pair of mahonias). You wouldn't want to go rooting around under there, even if you were an Aussie ;-)
As you all have deduced, a double slip would be nice but at ninety squid a throw, I think not. Besides, I already have one point in place at that spot. I had to go down to R2 (775mm) for the Y-junction to avoid the cost of a
double-slip and to reduce the area over which I, and more importantly SWMBO, will have to step.
Longer sidings are not an option without expanding the garden, but I run short trains anyway.
Point indicators are a very good idea. (Tip: with Mamod points, the trick is to file off the "weights" on the levers so they don't foul your stock and then paint one side white for "main" and the other red for "branch")
DG (Sweden): How easily accessible will the new points at the back be? Or will you be re-landscaping the garden as well? The best thing about it is that the trains will be able to run the other way at last!
I've already put down paving stones for access to the rear set of points. Yes, I may even have to paint the OTHER side of my stock ;-)
GT: If you move the two points on the right down a bit, using the point curve as part of the through road curve and siding curve, instead of where the straights are, you will get longer sidings. Small radius points look nicer used that way too. Hope it works out as you plan - no doubt you will send a picture of what can be seen through the jungle.
I thought about that, but the outer loop runs behind thick mature jungle. It comes out where it does because it can, if you see what I mean.
SM: If yewd sed that ther spikey plants stopped rail progress weed hav knot sed vat yew shud poot rales in thair.
Can't software let you down badly when it comes to showing the truth of the matter?
JA: Placing station B inside the circuit gives a longer main run, and may make handling stock easier
when shunting.
Reversing the position of the points at C encourages you to make the longer run from A to B.
Does this help?
Version 3A
JA:
Here's a better version.
Version 3B
DB: I like the idea of your
JA: A number of colonial railways used a sensible three-road loop instead of separate sidings at both intermediate and terminus stations. This could be Jesselton Junction, if the planting in your garden allows.
Version 3C
MB (Australia):
Curiously, in many cases with these 3 loop track layouts the side lines off the main are still referred to as 'sidings'. Only difference is they are double ended, which can add to the shunting variations.No, there's a diagonal paving stone and plinth arrangement so I can reach Beaufort Junction. I like the way you've turned it inside-out. Unfortunately, if the centre of the garden is to be accessible, it's not practical to swap the positions of the points we encounter after turning right on leaving Pigsty Hill.
The best we can do is the double slip. In this phase 1 version, it selects between end-to-end and continuous running. The end-to-end version has the D/S set for straight-through. The train goes right out of Pigsty Hill, once round the inner loop and terminates at Beaufort Junction. The return is the exact reverse of this.
For continuous running, the D/S is set to diverge. The train goes either way out of PH, as many times round the loop as one chooses, and then returns by changing the simple point or the D/S.
Although it uses R1 curves and points to enter and exit from PH, the continuous run is all R3.
Version 3
GH:
Looks okay to me John, considering you have little space in your garden. I take it you will be making your own crossover (bottom left of diagram.)
SM: Oh you Devil R3! You've probably got the maximum amount of track into the space relative to the available space. Have you been spending too much time looking at the minimum space layouts website?
I can see RW beating a pathway to your door for a much closer look though talking to him on Sunday, you appear to have more space than he has. He was asking about Mamod Track! If there's not much space I suppose that hand built does have its appeal.
JA: Version 3 is beginning to look quite elegant, but surely the double slip is a horrid price? Wouldn't
two points work just as well, and much cheaper? (L*B prices are a closed book to me.)
TL: I think you've cracked it. This "out, round'n'round, in" schemes also opens up the possibility of 1:1 scale timetable working, where X laps of the circuit equals the scale distance from A to B. This is how I prefer to run
at home. Wragby to Minting is 5 miles, which equals 10 laps there, run round and 10 laps back- quite a challenge with a heavy train on a single fill of gas.
I hadn't thought of working it quite that formally, but you're dead right. At present, I have to reverse at the junction to get into the other terminus. With the new line, the train should run unattended for N times round the loop, and then at the change of a turnout, trundle into the other terminus. N is of course the distance factor. Should be great fun.
Version 4
ML: One advantage of JA's two-turnout configuration as in his
That's a fair point, but most of my locos are sedate geared beasties which have no problem with S-bends (Thinks: Maybe I could have framed that better)
ML: Oops. Quite right, John. Should've recalled that as I bashed away at the keyboard.
I do think that, however it turns out, allowing for continuous running will increase your enjoyment of your line. If nothing else, you can set a battery powered train out onto the loop and leave it to its own devices while shunting at one of the stations or puttering in the jungle. Despite my fondness for steam, a good share of the mileage on my line is put in by the battery fleet who patrol the rails while I'm working on some other aspect of the garden.
The thing about a double slip, IIRC, is that it can be set to function like a simple crossover. You can't actually do this with a pair of points, as the train will always follow the setting of the second point. You don't even want to THINK about L*B prices!
TL: Not necessarily. You want to check that very carefully before shelling out. Many model double slips only have to operating levers, each driving both sets of switches at one end so the left switch shows which route on the right is set and vice versa. Functionally this is identical to two points facing one another, and the only advantages of the D/S are space saving, and the elimination of the reverse curve. Incidentally, although you wouldn't think so from reading the model press this second is the real reason why many real slips were installed, since despite there being bags of room it's still worthwhile to avoid propelling through all the wiggles you'd get using just simple points.
Don't worry, I'll check that before shelling out my hard-earned! If I can ever get any of the suppliers to answer their phones, I'll check it.
Huge thanks to all who have helped with this one. The final version for the Phase 1 changes is enclosed (sorry if I have bored some people rigid, but I've enjoyed running through the design process in public).
Like any good design, it became increasingly complex in the early stages and increasingly simple in the latter stages. (Bad designs only go through the first half of this process)
Version 5
JA: Yes, an elegant final solution with lots of operating potential. I enjoyed all that! When will it be ready for us all to come and play?
I've read, marked and inwardly digested, and this may well be Phase 2 of the Improvements, jungle permitting.
The mahonias are sacrosanct - anything that flowers in December and January and deters low-life scum is OK in my book!
Version 6
I did the first non-R/C end to end run ever on the PHLR today. Using the IP de luxe chassis at 6 volts, "Fire Fox" hauled a train from Pigsty Hill, once round the inner loop and along the branch to Beaufort Junction. It took one minute 30 seconds, which is a fair run for a tiny garden.
JA is quite right to say that the outer loop should be the circuit, with the terminus on the inside. This will be Phase II of the Improvements.
At the moment, I'm sorting out the problems posed by propelling stock over the R1 points. It's just a matter of getting the levels right, but it may be a bit fiddly.
SE: There are three cures for the problem you seem to have had. What you have done, thinning the flanges, and widening the gauge on the curves a little. The latter is probably more in keeping with the prototype.
If you are using L*B sectional track then I am not sure whether they or any other manufacturers actually put any easement into their product. One problem with flex track by the yard, is that the gauge tends to narrow
when it is curved. Again I do not know whether the manufacturers make it over gauge when straight to compensate for this situation.
Narrowing the BTB has the disadvantage that it MAY upset passage over some pointwork. As ready made track is not generally made to any one track standard you may find trouble with certain brands.
One of the reasons I favour the coarse O and 1 standards is that generally they have larger clearances/tolerances which tend to mitigate some of these curve problems and other track discrepancies common in the garden environment. Near scale standards would require a great deal more rigour to make them workable outdoors IMHO.
The problem seems to be where track is twisted and curved. Because of the Coffee-pot's long unsprung wheelbase, the front outside wheel lifts off the rail. I've sorted out the track and edged the gauge in a smidgin and it works fine. It'll happily handle the reverse 2 foot curves when running dead slow, at which it is remarkably good.
ML: Sounds as if it were more a problem with the trackwork than the back to back. (Been there, done that, own the tee shirt...) But guess it doesn't matter as long as it's sorted out and the Coffee Pot's staying on the rails.
Version 6
has now been put in place, and very effective it is! Having the circuit on the outside gives a longer run and makes the terminus more accessible. When the round tuit arrives and my boat comes in, I may well connect theMkL: I was wondering if you used manual steamers, If so how do they perform on your layout? I may have to compromise and use sharp curves. I have tried the locos on a circle of track and they seem fine but I am not sure how they will perform on a layout which has straight and severely curved track.
The coffee-pot is happy in manual mode with two foot curves but occasionally balks at two foot turnouts. Mind you, it is a very sedate performer, being geared down from oscillating cylinders.
JB: Over where the new terminus is can the cane fields be reinstated in a slightly different place? I.e. off the new main line at a later date; it would be a shame to lose them.
I have something in mind for this, using 2 foot points and curves and served by a skip wagon loco.
Probably the final version of the PHLR Improvements - the red bits are yet to be done. It's rather simpler than some previous versions. Run-round at Beaufort Junction is achieved via the outside loop, and takes the loco past the refuelling/watering point.
The line is now set up for end-to-end, out-and-back, and continuous running. Three of the points will be electrified. It's an interesting exercise to work out which they are, and which two will be wired together ;-)))
JB will be pleased to see that the cane fields have been reinstated. These will be worked by a very small loco indeed.
Version 7
GT:
You have a lot of railway for your 10 points there. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures in due course. In out and back mode, which is the main "fair weather" option, a push-pull passenger service operates from the bay platform at Pigsty Hill, once (or more) round the outside loop and on to the inner loop at Old Tars Junction
to arrive at Beaufort Junction. The return journey is simply the reverse of this.
Freight trains take the same route from Pigsty Hill to Beaufort Junction, picking up and dropping cane wagons at the Cane siding. The loco then runs around its train via Beaufort West Junction and Old Tars Junction, reversing on the wye as necessary, and picks up and drops wagons from the sidings. The return train returns as the passenger push-pull, except that it uses the wye to reverse into Pigsty Hill station, where lack of space precludes a run-round loop.
My R/C Forney #7 "Harry P. Dodge" has been on freight duty while I've tried this out, and very good it looks, too!
Version 8
This where they payoff comes. Not only can I operate my R/C Forney out-and-back from the shelter of my porch (no, not Porsche - porch), but I can set the sprung points on the wye to reverse the train after arrival back at Pigsty Hill without leaving my shelter
JA: We all want to know if the points were eventually operated by wires, string or hot air! (Well, I do,
anyway!)
Currently all mechanical. Using normally-sprung points, I can run out-and-back and reverse on the wye without changing the settings - thereby remaining dry without benefit of electricity [8-)}~. I think that's how it'll stay.
Over the last couple of days I've replaced the back-to-back points with a diamond crossover so I can get rid of the last 2' curves and put in 4'6" radii. The entry to the Beaufort Junction siding has been reversed, so that the turnout is on a straight part of the track and the point lever is more accessible from the path. The right-hand curve of the wye now runs through a mini-rockery planted with Sedum spathufolium Cape Blanco, Isotoma "Fairy footsteps" and, a real find, Corsican mint (Mentha requienii).
Version 9
I did think of replacing the crossover with a double-slip, but it seems that it wouldn't do the job I need with manual control (quite apart from costing the best part of a hundred pounds). Gradients have been minimised on the circuits by ballasting and embankments, and the only slight upgrade is arranged so that it is by the cane fields junction, where a stopped train is easily accessible. Beaufort Junction station has been moved to this point for the same reason, and its previous site will be turned into a freight yard. The Coffee-pot #8, currently my sole steam loco, runs superbly through all the curves and turnouts and all is well with the world - until the next problem crops up!
Well, it wasn't a problem, it was an opportunity. The original PHLR had a return loop at the southern end of the line (nearest the house) using 2'9" radius Mamod track. With the small pond in place, the maximum radius needed dropped to 18", which seemed impossible. Then I discovered the Modellbau-Werkstatt Bertram Heyn on the Web at
http://www.modell-werkstatt.de/. This German company produces 422mm/16.6" radius (R0) track, which will just fit around the water-butt and allow me to have a dumbbell configuration. A surprising proportion of my stock will take these curves, but it's not a pretty sight, and it will be tastefully screened with potted ferns. I can now sit in the sunshine by the large pond and watch the trains potter down to Pigsty Hill and back again.
Version 10
All the new work at the narrow end was ruined by builders working on NEXT DOOR's extension, so I had to rebuild. I replaced the snap-over points by a balloon loop and the Y-junction with a crossover. The result was very successful, I'm pleased to say. No more derailments out of sight from my seat in the corner of the garden, which is nice.
Version 11
A very small change, to get the longest possible continuous run. I sold the crossover on eBay - well, I said I was a cheapskate!
Version 12
Another small change - I replaced the Pigsty Hill station loop with a siding to allow space for station buildings. Guess what I did with the spare point?
Version 13